I have a Walther PP for sale, and I have a guy who wants to buy it, but he won't buy it unless I can prove that it is war time. Pistols are not my strong point, so I need help dating this pistol. It is a standard PP, there are no markings on it except for the serial number and maker code. It has a rough war finish, and there is no Walther legend on the left side. The number is 389337 P, and directly below it is the AC maker code. I can find no prood marks anywhere on the gun. Any help that can be offered would be greatly welcomed.

I have a Walther PP for sale, and I have a guy who wants to buy it, but he won't buy it unless I can prove that it is war time. Pistols are not my strong point, so I need help dating this pistol.

It is a standard PP, there are no markings on it except for the serial number and maker code. It has a rough war finish, and there is no Walther legend on the left side. The number is 389337 P, and directly below it is the AC maker code.

I can find no prood marks anywhere on the gun. Any help that can be offered would be greatly welcomed.Your PP was made in or prior to April 1945 according to Deiter Marschal's Walther Pistols. See the Bottom of the attached page(Page 16). Your Pistol should have on the left side behind trigger guard the Eagle over 359 military acceptance stamp and on the right side under the ejection point the eagle over N Proof Mark(See page 112).

Walther P-38 Pistol. Starting in 1957 and they can be recognized by the Walther Banner and an aluminum frame vs the all steel frame of the WWII. Serial numbers.

Hello, i am new to Walther pistols and am buying one with what appears to be a horizontal 'N' with something (crown?) to the right of it, made ca. What does N mean and the other character?

Crow Crown over N stamp shows that the pistol was test fired using ammunition loaded with smokeless gunpowder. It is part of a system that Germany adopted in 1891. NAZI government changed the appearance of various marks.

Crown over N became Eagle over N in 1941. If your PP has Crown over N, then it was made before 1941, otherwise it was made after 1941. Crown over N stamp shows that the pistol was test fired using ammunition loaded with smokeless gunpowder.

It is part of a system that Germany adopted in 1891. NAZI government changed the appearance of various marks. Crown over N became Eagle over N in 1941. If your PP has Crown over N, then it was made before 1941, otherwise it was made after 1941.Much obliged for your response. Any significance to the fact it was made before 1941 and that it has no other mark? What would be a fair price of a pistol of this vintage in 98% condition, in your estimation? I realize there is an element of subjectivity to this but you appear to be very knowledgeable about these pistols (about which i have admitted i know very little).

What resources (internet and books) are out there that might help me improve my knowledge of these pistols since i am about to be the owner of one? Regards and many thanks again, Crow. Much obliged for your response. Any significance to the fact it was made before 1941 and that it has no other mark? What would be a fair price of a pistol of this vintage in 98% condition, in your estimation? I realize there is an element of subjectivity to this but you appear to be very knowledgeable about these pistols (about which i have admitted i know very little).

What resources (internet and books) are out there that might help me improve my knowledge of these pistols since i am about to be the owner of one? Regards and many thanks again, CrowSee this table to determine which year your pistol was made: It is important to realize that Walther made PP for a long time, since 1929. If all you have is just the regular Cown N mark, then most likely you have a pistol made for commercial sales. The next question is how it got to US.

I know a little bit about Walther PP because I own three that were made after WW Two by Manuhrin, France under license from Walther. So I know basics, but not an expert. Your best bet is take some photographs and start your own thread. Maybe others will recognize something that you do not know is important. For everybody's information, the post-WW2 serial #s can be found in Dieter Marschall's book on Walthers.

I have one more question though: Being new to Walthers i went ahead and bought a magazine for the.380 Walther i bought but have yet to receive. When i got it i noticed it has a ridge on the left side, while other magazines i see are smooth on both sides. None of the books i have discuss the difference in magazines, nor mention the ridge (elevation) on the side.

Can someone explain to me if this means the magazine is for a post WW2 Walther.380, PP or PPK perhaps? There is no doubt that it is for a Walther PP or PPK. Your help will be appreciated as always.

For everybody's information, the post-WW2 serial #s can be found in Dieter Marschall's book on Walthers. I have one more question though: Being new to Walthers i went ahead and bought a magazine for the.380 Walther i bought but have yet to receive.

When i got it i noticed it has a ridge on the left side, while other magazines i see are smooth on both sides. None of the books i have discuss the difference in magazines, nor mention the ridge (elevation) on the side. Can someone explain to me if this means the magazine is for a post WW2 Walther.380, PP or PPK perhaps? There is no doubt that it is for a Walther PP or PPK. Your help will be appreciated as always. Like this one?

Lotuss, just wondering if you ever found out any info about your pp with a 5 digit SN? I also have one with 5 digits and the letter 'a'. Cant find info about it anywhere. The letter 'A' after the five-digit serial # means that it is a.380 caliber made in France betwee 1954 and 1985. The numbers assigned to the French Co. (Manurhin) were 12003A-78148A. You should be able to place your pistol in this range and determine the approximate date of manufacture.

My information comes from Dieter Marschall, Walther Pistols, page 28. Enochian Chess Software Review.

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As with any collection of this type, intent can be misconstrued and I want to make it abundantly clear that this isn’t intended to be glorification of any type but rather a reminder that we, as human beings, are capable of perpetrating the truly awful on one another. It’s import to keep in mind what we are looking at here, these are implements of foreign policy run awry. General comments about the selection of these pistols from the collection The following is a subset of my collection focused entirely on German pistols of WWII that can be linked to issue to German forces through either research of serial number ranges of specific Wehrmacht contracts or evidence of military acceptance. As you will see, the Germans issued a wide variety of pistols and though the collection is extensive, it is still incomplete as some pistols were only issued in very small numbers (100’s) and I have simply been unable to locate examples. And while the Germans certainly captured weapons and re-issued them, it is impossible to definitively identify which specific examples of Allied equipment were employed by the Axis, I have thus left out Allied pistols entirely though they were extensively used on both fronts during the war. I have also left out pistols in use by other Axis nations in the European Theater (eg: the Swedes, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, etc.

All had side arms specific to their military). All examples below are part of a private collection and are in fully functional condition. Most have been test fired to ensure function but some have not. It’s worth noting here the German mode and method of production. As you will see below, the Germans procured pistols from all points within and some outside the German Reich. Much of the production capacity for most, if not all, of these factories were slave labor. Sabotage was a very real phenomenon by these forced laborers during the war and while as a whole, these pistols can be considered reliable, any one example may have been the one that was not 100%.

A Primer on German Small Arms of WWII It is impossible to positively identify the military branch of issue for the overwhelming majority of German issued pistols so it is assumed here that all of these pistols were issued to the Heer (Army). Only one piece below can be positively identified to be issued to another branch of the German war machine (the Astra 300 is from a Luftwaffe contract). There is evidence to support issue to other branches on some items (the P.MOD.37 bearing the wear of the canvas holster used by the Luftwaffe in support of the Afrika Korps) but no assumptions are made unless I am positively able to link issuance to a specific group. No items below are known to have been issued to the Schutzstaffel (SS) though issue to the Waffen-Schutzstaffel (Waffen-SS, or “Fighting-SS”, the division of the SS dedicated for front-line combat). SS collecting is a whole separate specialty area of collecting that is even more frustrating than tracking down Heer side arms.

The short story on SS pistols is that (for the most part), there are no special markings that designate issuance to the SS. Only some Walther PPK’s can be linked to the SS through markings alone (hint: if you ever see a pistol with SS “runes” on it, the markings are fake). Procurement, purchasing, and supply chains for the Waffen-SS, Luftwaffe, Heer, and Kriegsmarine all came through centralized procurement under the army known as the Heereswafenamt (HWaA).

The Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe were permitted to procure pistols by direct contract under the authorization and direction of the HWaA. Pistols were shipped from the factory with two unnumbered magazines (except in the case of early p.08’s, and E/359 Walther PPs) in plain paper, sometimes in cardboard box. Pistols were not shipped from the factory with holsters. Holsters were shipped separate from pistols from the location of manufacture. Pistols would be matched with holsters at regional Heereszeugaemter (HZa, Army Equipment Depots) controlled by the German Feldzeugwesen (Field Equipment Organization). There were 21 equipment depots in the Reich and occupied territories.

The Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW, the Supreme Command of the Armed Forces) established a policy of “First in First out” for pistols but this was rarely observed for practical reasons (simply, you load a warehouse from back to front and you issue equipment from front to back). This is why it is common to find early dated items in generally better condition than equipment manufactured in the later years of the war. The Germans considered the pistol to be a vital part of a modern army (despite what some historians today would have you believe) and purchased and issued them in very large numbers. Supply problems and shortages were present before the hostilities of WWII and continued through the end of the war, it was for this reason that not every front line soldier was issued a pistol. A report dated March 1, 1939 indicated a shortage of 386,287 pistols, by October 1, 1939 the Oberkommando der Heer (OKH, Supreme Command of the Army) indicated a shortage of 362,287. Exact numbers are unknown but the shortage was described as “acute” in 1940 and considered “critical” in the 1941 and 1942 campaigns.

No items below were issued to police agencies, all pistols issued to police are marked with specific markings designating such. I intentionally excluded police marked items from this post. Why did the Germans use so damn many different pistols? Prior to August 1939, the P.08 Luger and the Mauser 1934 were the only pistol issued to the Heer, Waffen-SS, Luftwaffe, and Kreigsmarine. The only small caliber pistol in the German military was the Mauser 1934 in 7.65 and it was issued exclusively to the Kreigsmarine.

As mentioned above, German industrial production was from all over the Reich and you will see evidence below of this just based on the country of origin information. One might logically wonder why exactly the Germans used so damn many different pistols. This is a great question, and a question I had not fully appreciated until I dove into the rabbit hole of German pistols. The answer to this question is a complicated one but I will do my best to do it briefly without too much speculation as I’m not an expert here but merely a fan of history who has read a lot of books. The short answer is that Germany never scaled their economy for war and were perpetually behind in production. To put things in perspective, Germany did not reach peak production in terms of output until 1944, long after any hope for victory was realistic (if it ever were).

Germany effectively ceased to exist in terms of production capacity and economy in May 1945 and total industrial production for Germany in the first five months of 1945 nearly matched that of Germany for the entire year of 1937. While the German war economy is a fascinating study on it’s own, the net result was that Germany was never going to be able to keep pace with demand. Therefore, as the Germans over ran production capacity in the occupied lands they simply restarted the captured machines and continued to produce whatever was being produced before the Germans arrived. There was no time to spare to retool these factories to make standardized arms for the Reich. P.38 production did spread beyond Walther and Mauser, but it was slow to expand, it took the Germans 4 years before they were able to produce P.38 frames and slides on FN machines in occupied Belgium. Who was issued a pistol in the German Army? Contrary to popular belief, Officers of the Wehrmacht were not usually issued pistols though some were authorized an issue pistol at the company level.

The vast majority of German pistols were issued to Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs) and enlisted men. Officers were authorized to carry a pistol but they were purchased privately by officers and were personally owned, not the property of the German Wehrmacht. The following is a couple of examples of what typical German Kreigsstaerkenachweisung (KStN, Table of organization and equipment)dictates for issuance of pistols. I selected a couple of examples from different types of companies at different times during the war to illustrate who may have been issued a pistol.

I have never seen a.380 or a.22 version of the 38h in person. I've seen a couple of them posted in some of the collectors forums I read but they are very few and far between. It wouldn't be at all unusual for the 38h to be issued with an Italian made holster for a Beretta 1934. The two may have been together since they were issued to the soldier who used the pistol in the African theater. The 38h is a fantastic little pistol and is very accurate due to the fixed barrel.

I have not yet fired the one pictured in this post due to the grips (as you have noted, originals are very scarce and are very prone to cracking).

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